Curse

EternalTempest · Aug 29, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

No, what he's saying is, he couldn't even play all 4 of his old Tyrian characters through Factions, and make new Faction Characters as well, because he doesn't have enough time.

Thus, one of his Tyrians was "downgraded" to a mule.

Frankly, he won't get much sympathy from me. I'm currently playing 2 characters through Factions, and that's probably all I'll do.

Good news for me: More slots for Nighfall!

My ele is my only character that has 100% Skill/Map/Weapon Upgrade lock in Tyria and 1 outpost and 4 more elites then will have Factions Unlocked with her.

I may have enough time to get my sin 100% unlocked in Factions (0 in Tyria) (all the kurick map points below House Ze Heltzer + 1 more elite).

It doubt I will be able to get my monk through the game quick enough... but everyone loves a monk

so I may pull it off.

So if all goes well... 2 complete unlock (gw-gwf) and one with (gwf). I thought about starting a necro... but don't know if I would have the time.

Mordakai · Aug 29, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

To sum it up, there's no reason for PvE players to buy an addon if they don't want to. They should just be happy that they will have a wider diversity of possible gaming experiences, which they can chose to or not to enjoy.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

It will be the PvPers who will have problems with a steady increasing number of addons, since more skills are bad for high level pvp but nevertheless have to be obtained.

Really? Do all PvP players feel this way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

My ele is my only character that has 100% Skill/Map/Weapon Upgrade lock in Tyria and 1 outpost and 4 more elites then will have Factions Unlocked with her... So if all goes well... 2 complete unlock (gw-gwf) and one with (gwf). I thought about starting a necro... but don't know if I would have the time.

See? Another option. Concentrate only on one or two characters for complete unlock. (And no, I don't have any 100% unlocked chars... but that doesn't mean I'm having less fun!)

I was thinking about why people feel they "have" to do things. And I think sites like these are one reason. We wouldn't know about all the stuff we were missing unless we searched and found out. Thus, there's "pressure" to keep up... even though it's totally artificial pressure.

My best advice: Ignore everyone else's leet weapons and characters, and just do what you want. Don't worry you've only gotten 5 characters through Factions, and not all 6. That's just crazy stuff to worry about. This game is supposed to be escape from the daily grind, not another part of it.

No worries FTW.

Elaine Donnerbalken · Aug 29, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Really? Do all PvP players feel this way?

definitively not. At least many casual PvPers will like to test out new skill combinations (i like that too). But for high level PvP many more new skills are bad.

You can only memorize a limited number of skill pictures, descriptions etc (and train the ways to react appropriate).

Also more skills make Guild Wars harder to balance and increase the number of gimmick builds, ultimatively resulting in a game of rock-paper-scissors, since you can't counter every extreme.

Mordakai · Aug 29, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elaine Donnerbalken

definitively not. At least many casual PvPers will like to test out new skill combinations (i like that too). But for high level PvP many more new skills are bad.

You can only memorize a limited number of skill pictures, descriptions etc (and train the ways to react appropriate).

Also more skills make Guild Wars harder to balance and increase the number of gimmick builds, ultimatively resulting in a game of rock-paper-scissors, since you can't counter every extreme.

Hmmm, sounds like it would make PvP more challenging, which is not a bad thing in itself.

Course, I don't play PvP, so I really can't comment.

Elaine Donnerbalken · Aug 29, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Imagine, because of limited skillslots you would only have the possibility to counter either imbalanced build no.1 or imbalanced build no.2.

Deciding to take the skill against build no.1 you would have a chance against it, but you would lose to build no.2 for sure, and the other way round.

They don't have to be much stronger than the balanced (or any build which may be used) builds, this is about how PvP becomes boring when the outcome of a fight ist decided as soon as you meet each other at the flagstand and see your builds.

sindex · Aug 29, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Well I guess my last post was pretty bad so they took it off about this subject (don’t know why since I was trying to get a point across about profit). I really don’t understand why you would say “that it’s a terrible idea with the add-ons”. It all comes down to the “next step”; you never saw them end the series for Neverwinter Nights simply because someone said it was a stupid idea. You have every right to speak your mind in your own opinion (but I don’t agree with you). I believe it suit the company, (all in all) to get prepared for the next step (whether it be an add-on, Guild Wars 2, or not). You make the funding to keep the servers alive anyway you can, and you have to figure out the marketing strategy of your audience. People who play Guild Wars will continue to do so, unless there is some nasty turn that makes it less then worth while (like monthly fees, when there was none before).

MerLock · Aug 30, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Actually the word before GW's was released was that a new chapter would be released every 6-9 months. I think it would be a good rotation to release in between that range instead of dead on every 6 months. It kinda balances it out.

I know if your not ready for it, dont' get it. But I understand the OP's deliema. All his/her friends are getting it and he or she will feel left out and finding grps hard while everyone tries the new chapter.

Again just my opinion.

shadowmist · Aug 30, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Reading this, I'm wondering where the pressure the Op talks about is coming from? The only pressure I feel from playing the game is keeping up with new skill combinations and keeping myself from going broke when I make a new character. And those things I could just as easily ignore if I wanted to.

Yeah, if they keep adding skills and professions it'll eventually become a hassle later on, but it's not like we have to play every profession. I myself have played all current professions through most of the game, just because I like variety. However, I've only beaten prophecies with my monk and warrior, and factions with my monk and ritualist. I just do what I feel suits me, and I don't think adding more professions will MAKE me feel pressure.

Also, it's not like Anet will include new professions every chapter. They could just include missions and stuff. They never said they would always have two new professions and more skills, at least to my knowledge.

As for changing the 6 month release plan, it would be rather hard as I imagine Anet has some sort of long term business plan that would pretty much revolve around their current business model.

All in all, while I understand where the Op is coming from, we have to keep in mind that this is just a game. Do it for fun, it's not like anyone can really MAKE you play. Just my 2 cents worth.

birdfoot · Aug 30, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

IMHO, I think the way we feel towards the game differs from one another. While I don't completely agree with the OP (at least specific to the remarks on who's actually losing out), I do find his message worth pondering about.

I do know ppl who are inclined to create all characters and play through the entire PvE portion of the game; this is simply a matter of preference. Some folks just need a sense of completion that's all; in fact, their sole purpose of starting a game may be for completion (like playing RPG). In that context, it really appears that a 6 month cycle is hard to catch up and by the time you do (with a few months delay), you'll feel very far behind from the others (especially since GW is an online game). But then again, it's impossible for ANet to please everyone so.

Anyway, I'm not really sure if a 6 month cycle will pose any problems in the future, but all I can say for now is that it does help to add more variety into the game, which is a good thing for me. However, since ANet has set this kind of expectations, I just hope they will be able to cope with it and still release quality content as expected. If not, I'd rather they go with a 1 year cycle or something.

Rok · Aug 30, 2006, 09:46 AM // 09:46

6 months seems perfectly fine to me, 1 year was way too long to wait. I have 4 chars finished with Factions - 3 inported from Tyria and a native Assassin - who went to Tyria himself and did those, long ago, could have got the rest through, just got bored with it. Even with the release of new slots, i bought some but have not bothered lvling those characters up yet.

When Nightfall is released I will get all 4 chars through it plus either or both of the new classes, who i will then take back to Cantha and Tyria. If a new chapter comes out before I finish all that then that is just as well, I'll never be bored. If not then I may consider working on another character or 2. Time will tell.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 30, 2006, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Im completely up for an expansion each 6 months. I have beaten 5 times prophecies and 3 times factions and i am starting to be tired of both scenarios.

Nevertheless i believe that adding 2 new professions each expansion is wrong because if in chapter 4 we have 12 profs a simple natural selection will make some profession useless, like Assassins, Elementalists and Ritualists, as it has been pointed out in several occasions. So in order to keep balance ANET should not introduce new profession but enhance the existent ones.

Moreover, Factions is not a real stand alone, any new player can find it frustrating, it is terribly short and the total lack of diversity on ecosystems is sadly remarkable compared to what Tyria offers. Personally i dont recommend Factions but Prophecies to new players, and i dont think Nightfall will be as tutorial as Prophecies.

Keep the pace ANET, you are doing great!

EDIT: The last paragraph is out of topic, i know, but i felt it was interesting to point it out.

Ninna · Aug 30, 2006, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmist

They never said they would always have two new professions and more skills, at least to my knowledge.

yes they did

gamespy interview Jan. 11, 2006
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/guild-wars-.../680914p1.html

Quote:

Each release will sport two new professions only available to players who own those expansions

interview with Jeff Strain
http://www.just-rpg.com/default.asp?pid=1885

Quote:

our goal for professions was to introduce new ones in each new campaign.

Mordakai · Aug 30, 2006, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

Nevertheless i believe that adding 2 new professions each expansion is wrong because if in chapter 4 we have 12 profs a simple natural selection will make some profession useless, like Assassins, Elementalists and Ritualists, as it has been pointed out in several occasions. So in order to keep balance ANET should not introduce new profession but enhance the existent ones.

Interesting take. But, honestly, I don't think the debateable idea that the Assassin, Ritualist, and Ele are "useless" is much a fault of the new professions, as it is about those classes simply having balance problems (arguably). I don't want to get too far off topic debating the strengths/weaknesses of these classes, there are plenty of threads already on the topic.

For example, IMO it's not the addition of new classes that made the Ele "weak," it's an inherent problem with the Ele that will stand no matter how many classes there are, until they "fix" the Ele.

We'll see how the Paragon and Dervish are, but my guess is these will be popular/useful enough to be included in groups beyond Nightfall. Time will tell of course.

As for future classes, I still want to see a Druid/Shapechanger class, a Summoner type class like Necro, but without needing bodies, some other limitation (like Energy Drain or something) to compensate. Going to the New profession idea thread always gives me ideas of new directions Anet can go with new Profs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

Moreover, Factions is not a real stand alone, any new player can find it frustrating, it is terribly short and the total lack of diversity on ecosystems is sadly remarkable compared to what Tyria offers. Personally i dont recommend Factions but Prophecies to new players, and i dont think Nightfall will be as tutorial as Prophecies.

Lets call things as they are, expansions and not stand alone, and keep the pace ANET, you are doing great.

Here I have to totally disagree. By definition, they are stand alone, you do not need any other chapter to play. Expansions require you to own the original game to play. If you want to argue that, in your opinion, Factions was not as good as Prophecy, fine. I've seen threads where some people prefer Factions, and it seemed to get better ratings from reviewers. Remember, we all have different playing styles, and some people (like myself) really hated the amount of time it took to get to lev. 20 in Prophecy.

And still, you have to consider that Nightfall (or another later chapter) could conceivably be even better than Prophecy. Don't base your definition of "Expansion" on your like/dislike of a particular Chapter.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 30, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

I dont think that 2 new profession each expansion is healthy, it will be impossible to keep balance. Its a matter of natural selection, thats my point. A necro is meant to play either SS or MM, except BiP or orders in specific areas, unless you hench it or play with guildies. And similar arguments for any other profession: ritualist=rit lord, ele=nuker, etc. If the non standard builds are at the edge of extinction you cannnot expect less from professions if their quantity becomes really large.

Nevertheless i hope Darwin is wrong

About Factions as a non stand alone. Dear Mordakai, maybe i should have said that "Factions is an expansion disguised as a stand alone" in order to avoid any confusion. I know that theoretically Factions is indeed a stand alone since you dont need to purchase Prophecies in order to play. The comment "Factions is not a real stand alone" meant that for a new GW player Factions has very little PvE content to offer and the learning curve is frustratingly steep, all two points compared with what Prophecies delivers. Please note that i am not saying anything about Prophecies being better than Factions.

Now, back into topic, i love the 6 months delivery, go ANET!

brokenmonkey · Aug 31, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

/not gonna read past a point in what ur sayings.

NOT EVER NEW GUILD WARS WILL HAVE NEW PROFESSIONS PLZ GET THAT THROUGH UR HEAD.

AND DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT CONTENT.. i mean r u serious? mad about the stuff they give us?.. go d i e dont play guildwars then.

floppinghog · Aug 31, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

annoying topics like these need to get locked after the first page...

someone opinion is not a topic. get lost

Cynn Evennia · Aug 31, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Everybody has the right to start a topic because in that way we can see the opinion of the forumers. In this particular case no one has supported the opinion that the excess of add ons are a bad thing; on the contrary all forumers have posted their agreement with the 2 per year chapter politics.

Nevertheless the lack of tolerance is sadly remarkable...

Mordakai · Aug 31, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

someone [sic] opinion is not a topic. get lost

LOL. I would argue every topic is someone's opinion, unless the Topic is a Fact.

Even then, the thread quickly turns into opinions. After all, if all this forum had to offer was facts, there would be no reason to discuss anything, now would there?

Cynn, thanks for clarifying. I guess your point about the 2 new professions is directed primarily at PvP? Because, really, I can't think of any Professions being totally useless in PvE, not even Eles (who, although underpowered, do have their uses).

I think the main thing new professions offer is something new to try. Part of the challenge is finding ways to make the new professions work. I, personally, will be sad the first time a new Chapter comes out without new professions, although I admit, that will happen eventually. After all, there's only so many different ways you can do the same thing...

Loviatar · Aug 31, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynn Evennia

Nevertheless the lack of tolerance is sadly remarkable...

i think the lack of tolerance is due to the simple fact that most (not all) would be happy getting even more content to choose from and somebody suggests that even less content should be offered

gabrial heart · Aug 31, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

LOL, I think for the average pve'r that logs on for a couple hours a night, the 6 month deal would be a bit overwhelming. But looking at the fact that a lot of people don't even understand how to play one proffesion well enough, making every profession and running them through each chapter is a pretty unrealistic goal. I do however think you could easily get 3-4 characters through both chapters in the 6 month window with time to spare. My girlfriend has 6 chars and has beat both games with them all. Besides, i know i have a favorite character that i'd rather play over all the others.

Also, i know i read that A-Net's not going to have new professions with each chapter. I wouldn't doubt that chapter 4 will have a combined gameplay system for all the current professions and leave out adding any new ones.

I honestly would rather have a game with huge content that offers a continual challenge, then one that offers yearly releases far after I've got my fill of the last release. I finished factions with 3 characters in less then 2 months, not religiously trying to either. I think nightfall will be a thing of beauty.